Animator vs The Machine
With the explosion of AI, looking at what people in the animation industry think might occur in the future. Then talking to experts in artificial intelligence to help ground what this new technology is. Skynet or a tool? The downfall of animation or is this a possible new renaissance?
Animator vs The Machine
Green New Future:AI in Animation, Threat or Opportunity? A Deep Dive with Animators Zoe Hellwig and Jen Giunta
Will the rise of AI in animation spell the end for human animators or will it usher in a new era of collaboration and creative enhancement? Settle in with us, your hosts, and our esteemed guests, Zoe and Jen - two creative animators who aren't afraid to tackle this burning question head-on. From the potential implications on job displacement in the industry to the ethical conundrums that arise, you're in for an engaging discussion that's sure to leave you pondering.
As we journey through this episode, we confront the elephant in the room - can AI replace the human touch and passion in animation? Using their industry experiences, Zoe and Jen bring a fresh perspective to this debate, exploring how AI could be harnessed to support roles such as character design and background painting. Yet, the conversation doesn't stop there. We dive deep into the ethical implications of AI, highlighting the importance of sustainable wages for animators and the potential use of AI as a tool rather than a replacement.
Finally, we delve into the future implications of AI on animation and the role of animators. Rather than fighting the inevitable, we assert the need to coexist with AI, outlining its potential benefits and drawbacks. From increased accessibility for budding artists to the impact on crunch time and project deadlines, every facet is up for debate. Join us in this insightful, engaging, and thought-provoking conversation as we navigate the evolving landscape of animation in the age of AI. Don't miss out on this opportunity to think, learn, and question. Tune in now!
The sky is falling. The sky is falling Not so much, but there's definitely something coming. Can you feel it? It's been watching us for a while. You're talking to us, influencing our decisions, making art for us. Hell, i even heard Wendy's wants to hire it to take your late night burr runs. Guessing from this, you probably guess what I'm talking about AI. Now, i know this is not a new subject matter to talk about. The last six months alone, we had this big boom of technology from chat, gpt to stable diffusion, dreamy eye and about a hundred other things.
Speaker 1:However, all these things leaped forward made me wonder could AI animate? And I don't mean like, i don't mean moving from A to B, i mean traditionally anime, with all 12 principles animating 3D and 2D. My first thoughts of this topic were yeah, probably, maybe, and that uncertainty bothered me. The more I look into it, the more questions I had. So, as an average animator who's overweight, has bags under his eyes and is addicted to caffeine, i decided to try to find out With a basic knowledge of AI. I want to talk to people in the field of animation and get to know what people thought and what they believed could happen in the near future. Then talk to some experts in AI and see if these concerns or theories had any validity to them.
Speaker 1:My name is Alex Plant. Your assets in front of your screen. Turn those ears on and let's find out. Is this the boogeyman crawling up on our beds or just sully trying to say hi? Is this a strange model of town before us Or a new tool to bring about human revolution? Is this a friend or a foe? Is it judgment day or did we just fall asleep in front of the TV? again, i don't know. Let's find out together in Animator vs the Machine.
Speaker 1:All right Today we have two very green animators who just started their wonderful careers. We have Zoe and Jen. Hi guys, Hello. Hello, Perfect. So let's start with Zoe. Tell the Phantom viewers out there a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Well, my name's Zoe. Yeah, Let's start. Yeah, i am a junior animator at Sphere Animation. This is my first job outside of graduating as a college graduate, i guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, set a school Graduate is a college graduate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, prior to that I was mostly just doing either illustration or freelance animation for fun, so it's been a very good introduction into studio work. So, yeah, nice.
Speaker 1:What about you, Jen? Tell the viewers who you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Zoe. This is my first production And I recently graduated just a few months ago from Herzen College. Prior to that, i did not study art. I studied science for six years. So we did a great change over in the industry And now we're fully in it. So that's great.
Speaker 1:Perfect. So I'm going to start with Jen. What is AI?
Speaker 2:So AI, artificial intelligence, basically, nowadays it's kind of machine learning, where you are using algorithms and incoming fluxes of new data And you're trying to replicate human learning or human understanding or whatever you are. whatever topic you're discussing, you're trying to become more efficient, or, yeah, efficient in what you're trying to produce without the use of human interaction. So yeah, that's my understanding of it.
Speaker 1:Zoe, is that similar type of thing for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a pretty similar thing. So I'm mostly taking, like previously known, things done by humans and then programming that or coding it into artificial intelligence that can then use that said learning and either amplify it or improve it, whether that's by speed, quality or both.
Speaker 1:So, as people that have just started off their animation journey into this world, do you guys fear or are concerned about AI possibly spreading its tentacles into the animation industry, and do you think it would be affecting your jobs? Anyway, okay, i was just Yeah first call.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first call, first serve.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, okay, i think it's very gray area as of right now, i think it'll continue to be gray area, like there's no black and white in the sense of whether or not it'll destroy jobs or create more. But, like for an animator, i think it's. I don't have too much fear with it, take it. I don't have too much fear with it taking my job, because there is an aspect of human touch and passion and soul that goes into animation and being able to express that that, at least at this time, ai cannot replicate. So for me and the near future, i'm like good, i'm not worried. I'm good, i'm not worried.
Speaker 1:What about you, Jen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been interesting because, as I've been talking to more of my animator colleagues, they've all asked the same thing oh, what's your opinion? And you know, as a new animator, i don't think I've really had a change in heart and how I felt about it, which is, i don't think it's really going to destroy any of my jobs. I've never been fearful of it. I definitely you know from seeing things online have felt that there are some jobs where AI will definitely affect it more, but pertain to our job specifically. I don't think it'll be as big of an issue as some people think it might be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like currently, i think, like the ones that are, i guess threatened would be people that like, not people that animate in harmony, right, with like it's just a sophisticated puppet, right, but people like background painters, character designers, where you know in AI, you can just teach it. You know stable diffusion. You just get like, oh, here's my sample size of my character, so you do the full character turnaround And I want you know this is the range I want. So you're like happy expression like no higher than this And inside like no lower than this And I want you know confused and you get like 50 images of what a confused look like, like confused look, looks like, and it was like it could possibly do it. And I've seen it done on YouTube where someone did like character sheets and I was like fuck, that sucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, So you're like damn it, that looks pretty good.
Speaker 1:Like I, like I remember reading an article about a new, a new Japanese short called Boy and Dog And I got this huge outrage because, um, an AI was used to paint and redraw the entire backgrounds and the studio was like, oh, it was because of labor shortage. But a lot of artists are like, no, you know, you're stealing jobs. So my question to you is Do you see a use for it, or is this more just inviting the devil dinner type of thing, where it's like you're inviting him to your table And once he's there, you're kind of cooked. What do you think silly?
Speaker 3:um, i think It's. It's a very tricky situation, or call, i guess, because, like, if I, if I think of, like the Japanese example that you were giving, like the reason of labor shortages or or whatever it's like, well, they're not getting paid enough in the first place, like no wonder They're, like they're, they're finding cheaper options, which then is just one bad for, like Any artist living in Japan, because people are taking The, the chief alternative, which then puts them out of the job. Um, instead of getting like a highly skilled individual and caring about paying them a livable wage, um, in terms of it coming into our lives, um, i, i, i think there is a use for it. Uh, again, i think it's more specific with things like harmony, um and and tombom animation, especially rigged animation, whether it's in um, animate, cc, harmony, uh, i'm trying to think After Effects, i think also uses forms of uh, i don't know if, if they have AI specifically, um, some of my friends are Uh starting to try it out on blender and stuff. So I mean it can it? yeah, i can have some useful aspects that Make it a lot simpler and quicker to figure out, rather than having to either code something um and then apply it each time that you need to add a specific uh, movement or texture or um Like in between, or something, something that's like hyper specific uh, that could easily take you A few hours, then reduce to a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3:Um, in that case, i think it's useful. In the case of of more like taking over. Yes, hypothetically it could, but at the same time should it because It's and that's why it's just like I. It's so conflicting with where you would Stand, because it's like do you care about the well-being of people because you are also an artist and understand the hardships and want to continue and help make that industry thrive off of the, the passion and soul of animation or illustration, or Are you going to be that like high up Multi-millionaire boss That's like yeah, you know, it's a cheaper thing, so like, might as well.
Speaker 1:So Right, yeah, this is what I want to talk to you guys, because you guys have this, you guys just at a school and you're like, yeah, i'm ready to go, like I want to make this. You know, like we've all, we were all inspired by Animation at some point to get into. That's why we got into this business. Right, like for me it was watching reruns of the books buddy and tweedy show at like 5 pm On global tv and Toronto. I was like, oh, this is the shit. And. But then, yeah, finding out years later that that was just reruns, i thought this was like a new television show.
Speaker 1:Who is Daffy duck and why can I not have him all the time? but I don't know. It's part of me thinks like you gotta stop thinking with the your artsy hat and sort of thinking from a business point of view, because If you had to choose between a production that costs, you know, 500,000 versus 200,000, with some servers and The public can't like it's good enough for the public And that's when you might get the swing you know might swing in that direction. What do you think, jen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, i mean in terms of kind of like the cost side of things coming from clients producing shows and all these things, it's like I mean, i think at a certain point, you know, ai will be able to From from like, for example, a department where you have character designers, right, i think it will definitely change how character designers are hired or how many are working, because I don't think, i don't think now They're gonna fully take over, but their, their daily tasks might change, like it. It could be really useful to like get quicker designs, drawings, and then the the designers would kind of do the nitpicking to change those things based off what clients want. You know What Zoe was saying.
Speaker 2:With like Harmony, the program that we're using, it's like I feel like AI will kind of help with the tools that they Keep putting out in their new versions to make animation quicker. And here's the thing it's like If animators can use these tools more efficiently, their animations will be done faster, production will go faster, the cost will be cheaper. Anyways, i mean, who knows, maybe in the long run and AI will just be able to produce an entire show without anybody. But I feel like, for now, i mean, i think it's more just like from our animation side. It'll just be kind of upgrading the tools for us to kind of Get better animation style faster Without completely eliminating our jobs.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, yeah, well, yeah, because, like the enemy of animation is time. There's never enough of it. You always want to make these like big, massive, like I want to make this the My money potseem or like this is the thing that everyone's gonna use in trailers and promos. Everyone has the same mentality. Right, we all go into it. They can like this is my magnum opus And the reality is like no, you're doing commercial art the end of the day. Right, it's, it's sell something like.
Speaker 1:That's the like that's the soul crushing thing about it, where you're like oh, at the end of the day, like you're trying to sell something, so like it's always been that way from like Fred Foenstone selling cigarettes on his tv show to.
Speaker 1:You know transformers, you know like, and he made me like buy our action figures, look at these cool toys, kids. So Yeah, i think it'd be interesting to see If something like tomb boom integrates some form of an a or like a smart learning type of thing algorithm. But our, let's say, say, theoretically, you get an AI and you'd be like all right, this is the style of my show And you're in this AI kind of acts, kind of guides, say all new people like yourselves, like I, like this is the show style, kind of like acts, like a mini, like a, like a sub supervisor. Essentially, is that? would that be taken away from you being as an animator, or is that just a new partner? Or is it just a tool? Because if this little tool is telling you like this, the style, no more like that's not like this And the computer's doing most, like if the computer's showing you how to do it, are you still animating or is it? You know it's the computer doing most of it, oh.
Speaker 2:Thinkers Yeah, i mean The definition of animators or our job description might change eventually because of it. Yeah, i don't know. I mean I I think we'd still be, but I guess hard to really confirm that until it kind of gets integrated in.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, i don't know, yeah because, like I was thought, like I like, once AI breaks through that and I'll probably like, no, you'll never break through that 2d, like you just can't do it. I'm like, yeah, i can't do it now You give it Time. Like no one thought I can draw hands and like, yeah, i can't because it's duplicating both sides And that's why you get those weird like nine digit monstrosities of flippers.
Speaker 1:But like once it figures out like oh yeah, it has one thumb and four fingers, and this is how we go and it starts understanding anatomy. Then it's like oh shit or someone teaches it like cartoon physics. It's like, oh, that's some, like it's not that, that's so much of a leap. And everyone, like everyone I've talked, i give them that, i give them that synopsis.
Speaker 2:They're like, they're like now, now, and then they're like the headbugs get slower and you're like, maybe, uh-oh, so I know, and it's kind of and it's kind of exponential too, like I feel like right now, ai, it's like we're kind of teaching it as a toddler. When I see it coming with art stuff right, like you can get some really cool animations, but there there are like little things wrong with it. You know you're like oh, that's so cute, it's doing great, but it's like, as we keep feeding it more suggestions, it's just gonna get better. So it's like I can just see the ramp up being pretty crazy. But Yeah, yeah, i saw someone on discord.
Speaker 1:It was like complain like oh, ai art has this bad habit now where it's learning from bad AI art. I'm like so like people learning from bad people are To me. I was just like what's the difference? it's the same. It's like people learning like be like someone learning art by only drawing sonic fanfiction. It's like it's still really bad or it's still like cringy and a little weird, but you know it, eventually it's gonna find the right path. If it really wants to do art, you'll just it's just like a course correction, right? You're like oh, don't study this. Go, stay more of this stuff over here.
Speaker 1:But um yeah, i don't know. It's a tricky little thing. So My question is if AI is implemented, do you see Jobs being changed, such as Let's let's give it theory that AI can animate in 2D and It's job is to animate crowds and like little clip, it seems like Grabbing a cup, like things where, like you, just like they're for an anime, they're like they're throw away scenes that like boop up, bump up your quota or whatever, if you have I don't know if you guys have quotas, yeah yeah, okay, i wasn't sure if that's how the studio, or still, yeah, so they bump up your quota, or not.
Speaker 1:So they're like, okay, instead we'll put because we're saving money on an AI that can do all these these extra scenes. We'll give you salary, but you have to teach the AI at the property. They essentially become the Supervisors, the AI to the AI. So do you see that as problematic or just a new phase in the job? I Mean.
Speaker 2:Let's be honest, no one likes animating crowds, since anyway.
Speaker 2:But it's like yeah, you know, your computer runs hot, there's more crowds, it's just all. No, it's never a good time. So I mean, in a certain sense It's like the positive side to it is just that you know, if you can remove just kind of the tedious task, the ones where, like, it'll get glossed over in the background and the big production of things it's like, and If the animator can just take that time, that's not kind I don't want to say wasted, but take that time and just put it to something where they can learn how to just Become a better animator in the more important aspects. I mean I think that's also just great. I mean it may, and I don't necessarily think it'll remove the amount It'll take away, the numbers of how many new animators are hired, because I you know, but I Think it'll definitely help with just getting rid of all of those other scene aspects that people just don't want to do.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna be honest, like there are scenes where you just don't want to do them because they're either annoying or They take up too much time and they're not you're just like oh, these are just like. I remember how to shot. Was it a giant? it was a people walking in a mall, it was like 30 people walking across and I was just like I Don't really want to do 30 walk cycles And they also look different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cuz like if they all look the same here, like I can tell they all look the same and it's in, looks bad, it looks really robotic. So now you need a human touch to be like no, change this one. I make this more like an old lady. You can't just have her like walk up, okay. So, yeah, it's okay. So you don't think it would affect how many people would be hired, necessarily. Just the job would change, maybe, or like the description would change, or maybe that's the new entry level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean I Don't have enough statistical knowledge on the, you know, on how many and new animators coming in versus out, sure, but I mean we're at an early enough stage or I know that's probably not being affected. Aside from other things happening. But I mean, let's just cost our fingers. Oh yeah, right now, You would have right now.
Speaker 1:It's just me playing chicken little like look, do you? not see it, It's right over there Yeah yeah. Oh, come back to me later, yeah, so. So, if AI is learning, what is the difference between, let's say, an AI animating and Learning from us versus AI art? It's like, is it theft from learning from you, or You know?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, the source of it, like the source of its information is coming from your animation, right, But your animation at the studio is not necessarily your animation. Now, you know it's not yours. You know, I mean Like you don't own the copyright.
Speaker 2:Right. Right, i mean I I didn't do a lot of, i Didn't do a lot of kind of like Our single art pieces for a while, as much as Zoe did, and so It's it's. It's kind of a tricky situation. There's been a lot of discussion whether or not AI is just it's gonna be theft if it's, because I've been at this point in time, it's like what is original anymore? It's just everyone is learning from everybody's others art styles, tweaking, hit throughout history, all these things. So it's like, yeah, i don't necessarily think it's theft. It'll definitely, i think, affect a lot of people who are doing just general art Commission exactly, and that's why, you know, zoe might have a bit more of an opinion on this because she's definitely worked through that.
Speaker 1:What do you think, Zoe I?
Speaker 3:mean from a personal standpoint, like if I were to look at my animation in a studio, it would more be in the setting of watching the show I worked on or a feature film that I worked on, be like those are my scenes. I did that Rather than like this is mine and I own this, because technically I don't When it comes to like my personal stuff, like if AI were to try and replicate that, yeah, i think I'd be a bit more conflicted. It could also be because I am very integrated with social media and have like a kind of hefty following through my TikTok and Instagram just because of my animation and art. So you know, if I were to see accounts that were somehow replicating that and it's clearly my art or like very heavily inspired, which I have seen in the past, but it's like kids tracing it And you know it's like I'm not gonna, i'm not gonna, yeah, i'm not gonna lash out on them, but you know it's like their form of learning or whatever. But if they were to like take my name, say this is Zoby Bops animation and I'm like I've never touched this scene before, then I would be like, okay, what's going on?
Speaker 3:That's a bit concerning because instead of people coming to me and asking for like commissions or just talking about my art and interacting with those people who like my stuff, it's like you're following someone who I don't even know And and is copying and kind of like stealing my style in a way that is profiting them.
Speaker 3:So in that case, yeah, i I become a bit conflicted. It's also in the sense with like illustrations as well And a bunch of my friends who are professional illustrators and seeing how AI is taking that kind of inspiration from a specific style and then recreating something completely on their own, like yeah, i'm sure it's fun for a trend, but I guess to an extent coming into a more business standpoint, like, rather than going to the artists that they normally support, or let's say, someone who knows that this artist is successful takes that said art and then again profits off of it rather than the original creator. It's just so conflicting because it's like where does that line get drawn between this is their art or well, it's like it's in their style, but they didn't draw it so technically it's mine, like yeah and also it makes me think there's this there's this huge debate about this individual photo that was taken by, i think, a monkey, as like to them.
Speaker 3:Is it the monkeys photo or is it the photographer because it took it with their camera? And it's that same thing where it's like is this technically their art or is it the AIs? and where does it lie in the sense of you being able to claim it as your own Right? So I don't. I it's. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's always very gray area for me when it comes to that, because I can definitely see the benefits of it. Where, like, let's say, i wanted to improve on my style And then I used AI to see what I could, i'm like, oh okay, like this is what I totally envisioned, but I just don't currently have the skill to get there. But you know, it's in my style, it's how I would want to see it, and then I can then use it as a learning tool to help me improve in comparison to someone using it, and like taking advantage of someone's skill and time and talent. So I, yeah, it's. I've always been a very indecisive person, like you don't ask me where I want to eat, because I will not know. And it's the same with like AI.
Speaker 1:To be fair, a lot of people I've talked to, except for maybe one so far, has been very much in the same mindset as you like. maybe maybe not, i don't know. Like the question I was asked them is like okay, is bugs bunny theft is, because it's still a lot of jokes and antics from like Buster Keaton, charlie Charlie and Charlie Shappen. Is it theft or inspiration? Right?
Speaker 3:I would say it's inspiration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say it is.
Speaker 3:I mean, maybe that's bias. I like both of them Well that's what I mean.
Speaker 1:So it's like yeah it's.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's if it's not don't go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a tricky line, but it's like, as long as it's not like a continuation, where everything is like down identical and you're taking in other little aspects from things that you've learned, then it's not necessarily just complete theft, it's just inspiration. But which is why I think a lot of TV shows haven't had a problem with it being like oh, this is like a huge rip off or just another version of whatever. It's like oh, you can see little bits of this and a little bit of this show and you know they're all and there's so much content now that it's like there's going to be so much overlap, right?
Speaker 1:So like even TV shows where it's like you know, like notoriously are like the CW. Superhero shows are notorious for just like ripping off past content and comics.
Speaker 2:They're like look, it's new and it's like it's not new.
Speaker 1:It's just the same shit that was told like the 80s, the 90s and whatever. But there's so much of it, even like movies and animated movies, that, like it, starts to just become white noise Right. And so my fear is like this game is once it cracks, once AI cracks that barrier and it's like look, i can animate properly. There's going to be like this fucking tsunami of just white noise just got flood the market.
Speaker 3:And just be like oh, it makes me think, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm going to go ahead.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure, oh yeah, for sure, yeah, like. Something that I've discussed before is the whole concept of big corporations and taking that as a purely profitable opportunity, where you know you think of channels like coca, melon and the types of things that they're putting out on a daily, like they'll put out five videos a day, which is just like crazy, and you can clearly see that the quality is not there, but you know it's, it's a lot of quantity and profit off of it. So I think that that type of quote unquote, white noise is definitely going to come from.
Speaker 1:There's always going to be people that are going to try to exploit, find the track to success. Right, the coconut is like all right, basic tweens, basic, very, you know, very floaty animation where it's like everything feels like it's in water. You're like, okay, what the fuck is going on.
Speaker 2:But, like kids, love it because it's fucking colorful and it's good enough And you're like, okay, It was crazy about coconut.
Speaker 1:No, it's no. Yeah, I know the artist. Yeah, I try as a parent watching that like over and over and over again, like 20 times a day. You're like, fucking, kill me. Now Can we watch like Paw Patrol, at least it's animated confidently, like okay, at least there's some antics and it's not floaty all the time. But oh, cocoa Mellon and all the different variants there are. I think there's like a European one, there's like a, but I'll tell you some fun facts about Cocoa Mellon.
Speaker 1:It's look it up sometime. It's really sketchy shit, because the studio just exists somewhere in Florida And that's all you know. There's no owner, there's nothing. You're like what It's some? like a weird conspiracy, shit. Oh, that's weird. I remember looking up one day because I was like, oh, what I was like my daughter was watching it And I'm like, ok, i've seen this episode for like the 20th time, singing about your ABCs. I don't want to watch this anymore. So I looked up like Coco Malik, who does this? Who does this horrible, repetitive shit? That's right.
Speaker 2:Like good for that You're making your money.
Speaker 1:But I can't. It's like an ice pick to the head. And I looked and turned to look at the studio And I was like, oh, the founder is this person. And you're like, ok, and then there's like there's no studio attached to it, it's like a moon bug entertainment, just a British company.
Speaker 3:But it I mean, I would guess it's outsourced. no, Like outsourced animation.
Speaker 1:I assume so, because it's like the studio owns. It is in Florida And it's like treasury, something, entertainment, and then you have a British company associated with it. So I'm assuming it's the outsourcing animation company, but then like that's it. It's very like because, like Kokomo doesn't have credits. So you're like oh no, ok, That's sketchy.
Speaker 2:Like there's no producer or anything.
Speaker 1:I'm like mm-hmm Interesting. Ok, Just the unanswered questions. Oh my god, it's just some weird Netflix thing.
Speaker 3:Well, we can imagine a few years from now. We just find out it was AI the whole time.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, It was his beta phase. It just broke out.
Speaker 3:It was making children's nurse, nurses. Coco Melon was the hub where it all started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just watched like on repeat Kai Yu and tried reinterpreting that And it came out with Coco Melon And you're like, oh god, it's all looping back, all right. So the last question I have is do you guys see a place for this AI at all Now or in the future?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i mean it's not. if I see it, it's just a matter of when, i think, because it's not going to go away, no matter how many people protest it or how many artists protest it, because there are aspects that do affect the creative field negatively, but I mean there are also aspects that could easily help it. So, yeah, i can't see it working into new animation programs. I mean, you think of when Harmony first came out, or when Flash first came out, how crass it was, and then how it's improved now. How does that get even better from here? Probably is going to have something to do with AI, i would assume.
Speaker 3:So I guess it's more Oh no, no, go ahead. OK, ok, sorry, That's OK, it's all good. No, no, no, no It's all good there buddy, no worries.
Speaker 3:I think, depending on studios and production and how they want to go about things will definitely depend, because at the end of the day, ai isn't going to apply for the job. It's dependent on who hires them, what the studio wants to do. So in that case, even just where you want to work and seeing whether or not you want to incorporate that and how much, will definitely play a factor in the future. So it's just more understanding how to coexist with it rather than fight it, because it's here and it's not going away.
Speaker 1:So yeah, what about you, jen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean I'm kind of excited to see what comes up from it. Like once again, it's an inevitable thing, like it's AI is going to be integrated into every part of everyone's life at some point. And in terms of our jobs, it's like if I enter a new production, i'm just waiting for the day where I come in for the introduction meeting. They're like hey, we have this new feature where it's going to help eliminate your tasks of doing these little things so that you have more time to get to the more important tasks. So I'll be like, oh, that's great, that's just more time for me, less time just getting frustrated at my computer crashing and having to deal with crowd scenes or something. But it's also, in the sense, going to be great for new artists. It's going to give them a lot of options to kind of explore more creativity, makes things a little bit more accessible on the learning front and on tool when you're actually doing art stuff. So it's like I think that's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, keeping on the positive side of things, and I mean, yeah, Now that you mentioned that, it does make me think in terms of accessibility. Let's say, you don't have access to someone like a supervisor or someone who can give you revisions, that has that knowledge And AI has that. It's been programmed to a sense where it's like can give you suggestions, Kind of like when you're learning a new game and they'll have the little pop up bar on the side where it's like I suggest standing further away from this enemy because their long range attacks aren't effective from those types of things. But coming to animation, where it's like AI can be that little pop up, Yeah, Hey.
Speaker 1:Maybe you shouldn't. You're essentially suggesting the AI animation version of Clippy from WordPret or WordPro.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking that.
Speaker 1:It's like fine, i hear you're seeing her having troubles. Can I help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, But I mean like it does sound.
Speaker 1:I could see something like that happening where it's like if your supervisor says is it a? meeting.
Speaker 2:If your supervisor is in a meeting away from his desk.
Speaker 1:They could just like click a button And they're like all right, i'm away from my desk, ai bot AI bot was called Bob is going to take over And he will give you like all right, these are your tasks And this is what you have to say this person. This is their scenes and this is what I want from them And it'll give you. It will understand the style of the show and stuff like that, And so I could definitely see something like that happening Yeah.
Speaker 3:Considering we have a whole animation Bible. If they're able to learn to understand that, they can point out things that even your supervisor might not catch And, depending on time and scheduling, either that AI will immediately fix and adjust it or they'll just point it out. Because it's one thing where it's like how much time can you spend on a scene? When is it time to be like OK, it's not perfect, but I can move on. So then, being like OK, i've done as much as I can with still being able to meet my quota, let me click this AI. Get those little nippets.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no. I agree with you.
Speaker 3:I'm saying at the end of the scene because I still, you know, i would like to say my ego isn't too big, but I have a lot of pride with my animation and I don't want to be like when I show someone what I worked on, then I'm like, OK, i'm done, but actually I didn't do half of this, like none of this is my work. I'm passionate about showing the stuff that I do, when proud of it, and I want to be like, yeah, i took like four hours to do this and I did it well.
Speaker 1:So exactly Like when you're like a fixer hasn't touched your scene that you can notice. you're like oh my God, this is my work.
Speaker 2:You're like it looks amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's so like it's so yeah, but then like, yeah, like you said, like if you're you know crunch time comes, and they're like it's just, it's a slippery slope, in my opinion. where it's like that, that balance and act, right, it's like it can be super helpful, right, but it can also go the other way. It's like crunch time comes, you hit, animate Bob, and Bob will just animate that fucking scene for you, because you know we got, we got deadlines to hit.
Speaker 3:I mean, i see, morgan, like a small thing, like you do your posing, you do your anim, and like with our show, there's a scene line on the opposing shoulder that doesn't always connect the whole way through, but it needs to, and either you forget or just something happens to be able to be like oh right, okay, thank you. Yeah, i don't know. Like, yeah, it's pros and cons, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's it's interesting times and I remember what I was going to say before. But sorry.
Speaker 2:No, no I remember now.
Speaker 1:No, i remember it was. if you had it right now, how long do you think chat, gpt and stable diffusion have been around? Yes, years.
Speaker 2:Years.
Speaker 1:Like in. Like active active public.
Speaker 2:Oh for the public. I mean, i mean probably somewhat of it, like probably a few years, but not everyone, because like it's like once the ball gets rolling, that like oh, this is available, everyone gets on it. But I feel like it's been around for years, maybe just hasn't been as good or as marketed, but yeah.
Speaker 3:I can again, considering how active I am on social media. I didn't really start seeing it flourish until like maybe a year and a half ago, maybe a year ago. Like recently, especially within these past few months, i've like I'm not trying to expose how much screen time I have on my phone, but there are these new trends where people will use AI filters to see what they would look like in the last of the avatar anime, barbie, and I've seen that skyrocket in trending in the past few months, just in the few months, and it's it keeps like getting better and better, because I remember about a year ago or at least, when the new avatar movie came out, there was a filter to make you look like the avatar, or, yeah, Navi, thank you. But now, like within the past week or so, there's an AI filter that is infinitely better and does not make you look like a freaking nature.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So I can tell you the answer. I know the answer. Oh yes, oh. so, chat, gpt has been around for seven months and stable diffusion, and all that has been around for 11 months. It's not even a year.
Speaker 3:So kind of close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're close.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's on my maybe spending eight hours on my phone today. It's research, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's my point is like people think it's been around a lot longer than the hats, But it's done all this. Like it's drastically changed everything in a lot of different fields And like that short amount of time. Like you get a person like change the world in that amount of time Probably wouldn't happen, At least in technology wise it would probably wouldn't happen. It would probably be years of development and all that stuff after release. Like the iPhone didn't change life for like maybe two years, because it was like the slow application of apps.
Speaker 3:But the iPhone 13 is coming out. No, but yeah, yeah, I mean like when the iPod came out it was like the fuck is this?
Speaker 1:And people are like, okay, it's kind of cool, but it was like really expensive, like, oh, that's a rich person thing. And then it got, you know, more affordable, you know people's income went up. and then it was like, oh, then it just changed everything. You had those Apple commercials where it was like they showed like acts, like a white stripes playing on, like the black, the red color, they're all blacks to the wet. These are the coolest ads ever. I want that. It was great marketing.
Speaker 3:It's in the Ottawa Museum now. What's that The iPod. It's in the Science and Technology Museum.
Speaker 1:Sure Like rightfully so.
Speaker 3:It's wild to me because, like, yeah, it's getting to that time now where, like, technology is advancing so quickly that when I think, mind it's held together by tape.
Speaker 2:It still works. I turned it on. I turned it on.
Speaker 3:You have a solid piece of history. A solid piece of history.
Speaker 1:Like I still have an original Game Boy color, I still have a piece of history, A solid piece of history like I still have an original Game Boy color and that shit still turns on and functions.
Speaker 3:That's the other thing. Things are made so much more cheaply now. You think of old technology and, like I would say, old VHS tapes or old camcorder record, all of those things. some of them still work and are working well And then you look at things now and how fast they break. That is another thing where I don't I mean AI is very, you know, magical in computer.
Speaker 2:We don't understand it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in terms of like physical things, i definitely that's. another thing with technology is that it's definitely it's so fast to the point where people would rather make something quick and efficient rather than long lasting.
Speaker 1:It's designed to break. It's made to break within a certain amount of time, so that your warranty runs out and you have to buy a new one.
Speaker 2:More money. That's what it is, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I looked at the date of the iPod 2001. I'm like, oh Jesus.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was born in 2000.
Speaker 2:Oh, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:I just yeah, i just felt like I should mention that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i just felt like more wrinkles.
Speaker 2:I remember when my aunt Alex she's also American. Okay, well, okay, i'm a dual citizen.
Speaker 3:Dual citizen Actually okay, true, true, true. Like all of my family's Canadian, but I did grow up in the. States. Okay, but school here was cheaper, so you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not paying an arm and leg. Facts Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 3:I don't have any student debt Perfect. So, thank you, canada, take all of that, Thank you. Canada for that. Well, there we go.
Speaker 1:That's the end of our conversation about AI and the future animation. Yeah, AI and animation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:So far, it seems like you're very hopeful. I think it's more. It sounds like it's more like more towards the positive side of things, and maybe it could be a tool rather than something that's going to steal jobs, or devastate the landscape or you know whatever.
Speaker 1:Not the doom and gloom of some of us look at Us jaded older people like, oh, we've been in here too long, we've seen the ways, we've seen what's happened, but no, that's great, i'm optimistic, i'm hoping my my optimism beats my jadedness And basically like, oh, it's going to destroy everything. I want to thank you, jen and Zoe, for talking to me today. It was great.
Speaker 2:Of course, very fun. Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it. I want to thank our guests for contributing on our journey so far, and I want to thank you, the phantom listeners, for hearing us ramble around the water cooler. Come check in next time as we talk more about the subject of AI and the animation industry. Let's find out together. Don't forget. Keep your eyes on the horizon. Goodbye.
Speaker 3:See you next time.